5. A "chest launch" produces uncentered rotation. And is little more than a #1 pp "lite" slid up the arm.
Agreed on the head thing. Not sure what you mean by "pp #1 lite" why not just pp #4?
I don't want to get you stuck on this single point but doesn't the above "uncentered" rotation bring with it a critical acceleration multiplier? Let me explain my thinking and please tell me if my layman's logic is wrong mechanically.
I see it, the whole motion as a multiple levered system , with multiple centres therefore. Take the Downswing Sequence for instance , with its initial period of shoulder acceleration about the pivot centre (a place between the shoulders) followed by a period of (left) arm acceleration about the left shoulder . These two levers if you will are sequenced in initiation but overlap somewhat i.e. the left shoulder is still moving while the left arm is accelerating away from the chest via throw out or drive out. An uncentered motion yes but a powerful "blast off" as the left arm is now moving faster than mere pivot rotation would allow.
Also , in terms of mechanical advantage when the left arm (the upper portion of the primary lever ... the "primary lever" the thing we are really swinging or driving , our main concern in the hierarchy of levers) lies across the chest in Startdown (the period of shoulder acceleration) the radius in question is one that extends from the pivot centre. Not from the left shoulder! Making the radius effectively about a half a left arm shorter and therefore theoretically easier to turn with Pivot Power. #2 angle shortens the radius length as well of course but the portion of left arm extending from the pivot centre is shorter too!
Sort of like bicycle gears in a way. Perhaps . Maybe. Small radius to large as you pick up speed. Each with a corresponding amount of drag . We ramp up speed by metering lag and drag. Some see it as being similar to the figure skater spin deal where the hands and arms are closer to the centre of rotation.... the longer radius upon arm extension slowing the pivot rotation . Whatever, the system requires a proper timing of the sequence to work properly. No amount of brute force will overcome the disadvantage of starting in 10th gear as opposed to 1st.
As an aside , this relates to the reason why I don't personally subscribe to the "keeping the arms packed" theory for full power shots anyways. Hold off's , low shots, fades, angled hinging, hook prevention etc ...... sure I'll do that, feel the "pack".
Trying to think of a mechanical model. How bout this kids propeller toy. Imagine the blades as being the shoulders , not the arms. Now imagine another even longer straight piece representing the left arm attached to the left shoulder propeller blade by a piece of string. Upon rotation would not the far end of the left arm piece move the fastest of any component? Uncentered though it is . Incidentally having a string like connection between left arm and left shoulder is a must for power transfer. Muscle tension at that connection is a silent killer..... if you ever lose power under stressful tournament conditions , or in cold weather, check your string connection. Need a big drive ... make sure its string like.
Agreed on the head thing. Not sure what you mean by "pp #1 lite" why not just pp #4?
I don't want to get you stuck on this single point but doesn't the above "uncentered" rotation bring with it a critical acceleration multiplier? Let me explain my thinking and please tell me if my layman's logic is wrong mechanically.
I see it, the whole motion as a multiple levered system , with multiple centres therefore. Take the Downswing Sequence for instance , with its initial period of shoulder acceleration about the pivot centre (a place between the shoulders) followed by a period of (left) arm acceleration about the left shoulder . These two levers if you will are sequenced in initiation but overlap somewhat i.e. the left shoulder is still moving while the left arm is accelerating away from the chest via throw out or drive out. An uncentered motion yes but a powerful "blast off" as the left arm is now moving faster than mere pivot rotation would allow.
Also , in terms of mechanical advantage when the left arm (the upper portion of the primary lever ... the "primary lever" the thing we are really swinging or driving , our main concern in the hierarchy of levers) lies across the chest in Startdown (the period of shoulder acceleration) the radius in question is one that extends from the pivot centre. Not from the left shoulder! Making the radius effectively about a half a left arm shorter and therefore theoretically easier to turn with Pivot Power. #2 angle shortens the radius length as well of course but the portion of left arm extending from the pivot centre is shorter too!
Sort of like bicycle gears in a way. Perhaps . Maybe. Small radius to large as you pick up speed. Each with a corresponding amount of drag . We ramp up speed by metering lag and drag. Some see it as being similar to the figure skater spin deal where the hands and arms are closer to the centre of rotation.... the longer radius upon arm extension slowing the pivot rotation . Whatever, the system requires a proper timing of the sequence to work properly. No amount of brute force will overcome the disadvantage of starting in 10th gear as opposed to 1st.
As an aside , this relates to the reason why I don't personally subscribe to the "keeping the arms packed" theory for full power shots anyways. Hold off's , low shots, fades, angled hinging, hook prevention etc ...... sure I'll do that, feel the "pack".
Trying to think of a mechanical model. How bout this kids propeller toy. Imagine the blades as being the shoulders , not the arms. Now imagine another even longer straight piece representing the left arm attached to the left shoulder propeller blade by a piece of string. Upon rotation would not the far end of the left arm piece move the fastest of any component? Uncentered though it is . Incidentally having a string like connection between left arm and left shoulder is a must for power transfer. Muscle tension at that connection is a silent killer..... if you ever lose power under stressful tournament conditions , or in cold weather, check your string connection. Need a big drive ... make sure its string like.
Lets see- kinda jumping around a-bit:
I have NO CLUE what "keeping the arms packed" is. I dont get out enough I guess.
The middle paragraphs- I am a BIG fan of the kenematic Sequence so all you say is all good.
The #1 lite comment- the left arm should be a string and to swing #4 pulls one end of this string. When one hits they push on #1 at the hands. If one "launches" off the chest then the left arm must be stiff and the pressure is pushing, not on the hands but way up above the bicept. Like a #1 pp "lite". Think about it, any real power will tear out your rotator cuff. and fold the arm. Which must be supported by right arm force. Might as well call it hitting.
Just let the left shoulder pull, club will fly out.
Another point, while i am typing. {This is a new point on why it is taught to "spin the flywheel" with the right shoulder} although the left shoulder pulls, because the right is 180* out it can be thought of as driving. That is good because only the right shoulder can be "aimed" downplain. So, the left shoulder can be moved in the correct direction because of right shoulder precision movement
Tee time- USGA- gota go
HB
Last edited by HungryBear : 06-17-2012 at 09:39 AM.
The #1 lite comment- the left are should be a string and to swing #4 pulls. When one hits they push on #1 at the hands. If one "launches" off the chest then the left arm uust be stiff and the pressure is pushing, not on the hands but way up above the bicept. Like a #1 pp "lite". Thaink about it, any real power will tear out your rotator cuff. and fold the arm. Which must be supported by right arm force. Might as well call it hitting.
Just let the left shoulder pull, club will fly out.
Another point, while i am typing. although the left shoulder pulls, because the right is 180* out it can be thought of as driving. That is good because only the right shoulder can be "aimed" downplain.
HB
When Hitting, the push on #1 is with the right triceps. When Swinging it's the right shoulder which is pushing on #1, which pushes on the left arm, which pulls the left shoulder, which pulls the shaft, and when the left arm blasts off, it's still pulling the shaft, so you should call it what it is, Swinging.
The left shoulder never drives - it is always driven, by either the right shoulder or right triceps. The left shoulder, like the left arm, is passive, whether Hitting or Swinging. The right shoulder is the only one which can drive.
When Hitting, the push on #1 is with the right triceps. When Swinging it's the right shoulder which is pushing on #1, which pushes on the left arm, which pulls the left shoulder, which pulls the shaft, and when the left arm blasts off, it's still pulling the shaft, so you should call it what it is, Swinging.
The left shoulder never drives - it is always driven, by either the right shoulder or right triceps. The left shoulder, like the left arm, is passive, whether Hitting or Swinging. The right shoulder is the only one which can drive.
How does the pulling motion in the down stroke by a swinger work? Isn't this a left arm action?
When Hitting, the push on #1 is with the right triceps. When Swinging it's the right shoulder which is pushing on #1, which pushes on the left arm, which pulls the left shoulder, which pulls the shaft, and when the left arm blasts off, it's still pulling the shaft, so you should call it what it is, Swinging.
The left shoulder never drives - it is always driven, by either the right shoulder or right triceps. The left shoulder, like the left arm, is passive, whether Hitting or Swinging. The right shoulder is the only one which can drive.
Say it aint so Joe! U really do understand what I said but U are playing a game. Dextro?
Trying to think of a mechanical model. How bout this kids propeller toy. Imagine the blades as being the shoulders , not the arms. Now imagine another even longer straight piece representing the left arm attached to the left shoulder propeller blade by a piece of string. Upon rotation would not the far end of the left arm piece move the fastest of any component? Uncentered though it is . Incidentally having a string like connection between left arm and left shoulder is a must for power transfer. Muscle tension at that connection is a silent killer..... if you ever lose power under stressful tournament conditions , or in cold weather, check your string connection. Need a big drive ... make sure its string like.
Last part of O.B. comment I didn't talk about above.
There are two (2) vectors we must look at:
1. that points straight out from the center-which will aligne with the shoulders under steady state rotation. (radial)
2. That trails the accelerating skoulder and is only present during acceleration, be it + or -.
The summation of these two vectors locates the "power package" arms hands and club, in general. BUT, we will restrict it to the left arm and #4 accumulator here because we need to keep within managle problem bounds.
The "vector sum" or resultant is of lower magnitude than the sum of the individual magnotudes if there is an included angle. and, the direct is within the included angle at an angle proportionate to the individual magnitudes. ie. You have to do the Trig.
Vectors can represent force, having both magnitude and direction. Nature likes to get/keep things in the lowest energy state. ie. the shortest vector resultant for the conditions at hand.
Good golf (TGM) requires good alignments created by good vectors, when you get moving, the direction and forces in these vectors are what is felt.
You know humans are real good at learning this. BALANCE. we run, walk, start fact, turn fast or slow all sorts of athletic things and all without falling on our face. Well, sometimes we do fall and sometimes we hook it off the face of the earth.
we practice this stuff 24/7 when we a child. how long does it take to swing a golf club? 1 second.
Is this a simple game?
HB
Last edited by HungryBear : 06-17-2012 at 11:44 AM.
How does the pulling motion in the down stroke by a swinger work? Isn't this a left arm action?
When Swinging , for pivot strokes there is no "left arm pulling action". That is to say the left arm is inert, string like and is pulled by the left shoulder only. For a swingers Pull Minor Basic , one accumulator, stroke , the Pivot is zeroed and the Left Arm itself does the pulling . You don't see this shot on tv very often but it is a logical shot given Homers catalogue of available options. Dave Stockton putts this way apparently despite the fact he sets up like he's about to Push Basic .
Think about this way ... to pull with the left arm in a pivot stroke is to pull the left arm away from the chest, an early release of #4. Hmmm not sure about short Full Sweep Release Pivot Strokes .... there might be a little left arm pulling there, gotta check that out on the range. Yoda'd know, he is a magician with that shot. Luke Donald isn't bad at it either.
When Swinging , for pivot strokes there is no "left arm pulling action". That is to say the left arm is inert, string like and is pulled by the left shoulder only. For a swingers Pull Minor Basic , one accumulator, stroke , the Pivot is zeroed and the Left Arm itself does the pulling . You don't see this shot on tv very often but it is a logical shot given Homers catalogue of available options. Dave Stockton putts this way apparently despite the fact he sets up like he's about to Push Basic .
Think about this way ... to pull with the left arm in a pivot stroke is to pull the left arm away from the chest, an early release of #4. Hmmm not sure about short Full Sweep Release Pivot Strokes .... there might be a little left arm pulling there, gotta check that out on the range. Yoda'd know, he is a magician with that shot. Luke Donald isn't bad at it either.
Thanks,O.B. as always.
I got caught up by the pulling versus pushing.
I thought that was LA vs RA, but the pulling could perhaps be more in in both hands like tugging?
I have probably not been pulling at all - more like OTT right shoulder throwing away... I'm sorry to say.. so this is mostly just a theoretical question on my part.. but I'm eager to learn..
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