Pistol - I was taught here at this website that PA#4 is completely released when the left arm-chest wall angle is 90 degrees. Hogan achieves that 90 degree release angle by impact, so I presume that he has completely released PA#4 by impact.
It is my personal opinion that Hogan is a swinger - based on watching his swing video many times. If I am correct, then PA#3 release is essentially a passive phenomenon and not due to the active release of PA#1 that thrusts the straightening right arm through impact. If you have reason to believe otherwise, please provide the "evidence" (and the statement "I wish I had three right hands cannot be considered "evidence").
I do not believe that Hogan always used angled hinging, He sometimes employed horizontal hinging. However, I think that he preferred angled hinging because he preferred a power fade shot, rather than a low penetrating draw. I think that he was skilled enough to use either angled or horizontal hinging at will.
Jeff.
Jeff you put up a youtube clip showing Hogan not even close to impact showing release of #4 and now you say he releases all of it by impact...im confused ..seems like you are contradicting yourself now.
Why would hh produce a low draw? and angle h a low fade?
Can you produce footage of Hogan post 1950's using a hh?
Homer says to use elbow plane it requires an earlier release of #3..what would #1 have to do with this and 3 right hands?
What about what Venturi said of Hogan and what he said in the locker room that its elbow to elbow..inferring he paints a dot on the inside of the arm/elbow joint and points it to the sky.
Consider the downswing is over in aprox .3 sec and it takes the brain .2 sec approx to send the signal to the arms/hands would that not make some sense that Hogan actively supinated his left elbow during the downswing which would in turn initiate the #3 release?
Pistol - that video by Golfbulldog shows that Hogan starts to release at that time point, but release is not completed until impact. What's the contradiction?
HH produces a low draw because the clubface is constantly closing during impact, while AH produces a half-layback situation (halfway between closing and layback) and that produces a a small degree of slice spin due to a small degree of compression leakage.
Where does HK state that using the elbow plane requires an earlier release of PA#3, and what is meant by an earlier release?
In this swing video of Tiger Woods, he is on the elbow plane in the late downswing and he has no problem with a late release of PA#3.
You wrote-: "What about what Venturi said of Hogan and what he said in the locker room that its elbow to elbow..inferring he paints a dot on the inside of the arm/elbow joint and points it to the sky."
I don't know what you are actually describing and I also don't know what point you are trying to make.
You wrote-: "Consider the downswing is over in aprox .3 sec and it takes the brain .2 sec approx to send the signal to the arms/hands would that not make some sense that Hogan actively supinated his left elbow during the downswing which would in turn initiate the #3 release?"
I presume that you made a typo when you stated "elbow" rather than forearm. One cannot supinate the elbow. However, one can perform a supinatory left forearm action. Why should Hogan's left forearm supinatory action need to be active? What's wrong with passive - activated by an assertive torso rotation through the impact zone?
Everybody needs to have their version of 2-R - a get out clause for using images out of desired context!
The clip I posted, which Jeff referenced, was meant to show the initial movement of left arm off the chest, with left upper arm not being help tightly to the chest wall.
You can not tell how much acc.4 has released at impact (last frame) because of the video angle.
You can make no conclusion re. wrist motion/acc 3 release from this clip.
Pistol - that video by Golfbulldog shows that Hogan starts to release at that time point, but release is not completed until impact. What's the contradiction?
Seems to me Jeff you put a video/picture to suit your purpose but how come plenty of other vids/pict of Hogan show other results
HH produces a low draw because the clubface is constantly closing during impact, while AH produces a half-layback situation (halfway between closing and layback) and that produces a a small degree of slice spin due to a small degree of compression leakage.
Jeff you are stating basics..lots of other factors determine ballflight..trackman!!
Where does HK state that using the elbow plane requires an earlier release of PA#3, and what is meant by an earlier release?
somewhere ..surely you got all copies ..read
In this swing video of Tiger Woods, he is on the elbow plane in the late downswing and he has no problem with a late release of PA#3.
Cant be bothered watching the video Jeff cause no comparison to Hogan and he had way less #3 to release and more cf position usually
You wrote-: "What about what Venturi said of Hogan and what he said in the locker room that its elbow to elbow..inferring he paints a dot on the inside of the arm/elbow joint and points it to the sky."
I don't know what you are actually describing and I also don't know what point you are trying to make.
Seems pretty obvious what Venturi said ..check out the ed sullivan show
You wrote-: "Consider the downswing is over in aprox .3 sec and it takes the brain .2 sec approx to send the signal to the arms/hands would that not make some sense that Hogan actively supinated his left elbow during the downswing which would in turn initiate the #3 release?"
I presume that you made a typo when you stated "elbow" rather than forearm. One cannot supinate the elbow. However, one can perform a supinatory left forearm action. Why should Hogan's left forearm supinatory action need to be active? What's wrong with passive - activated by an assertive torso rotation through the impact zone?
No there is no typo error Jeff but i know what you are getting at in terms of medical function ..however Hogan was smarter than you cause he had some #2 left while triggering #3 so his clubface rotation was limited
Jeff.
I am willing to participate in a debate where I can get to interchange opinions with a person who describes his opinions in a constructively communicative manner that is designed to enhance understanding of a person's opinions, rather to exhibit "one-upmanship".
A statement like -: "Seems pretty obvious what Venturi said ..check out the ed sullivan show" is not designed to constructively communicate. Nor are these statements-: "somewhere ..surely you got all copies ..read." and "Can't be bothered watching the video Jeff cause no comparison to Hogan and he had way less #3 to release and more cf position usually."
If you are really interested in educating me re: your viewpoint, then you need to provide expansive commentary that makes your viewpoint(s) understandable.
The link Jeff posted has some interesting stuff to explore. This thread has deteriorated into a run of the mill........
I'd just like to look at the pictures of Tiger and Jamie and try to understand the dynamic that allows them to propel the ball like the giants Hogan talked about in 5 lessons. But these guys don't look like giants....just strong and fast.
It looks to me like Jamie will only get longer as his technique improves.
Anyone see any serious karate chopping down the plane?
The link Jeff posted has some interesting stuff to explore. This thread has deteriorated into a run of the mill........
I'd just like to look at the pictures of Tiger and Jamie and try to understand the dynamic that allows them to propel the ball like the giants Hogan talked about in 5 lessons. But these guys don't look like giants....just strong and fast.
It looks to me like Jamie will only get longer as his technique improves.
Anyone see any serious karate chopping down the plane?
Anyone see some hula hula pivot?
Anyone see any maximizing the radius?
Agreed . . . .but before we proceed down that line of thought . . . I think we should state the basic premise of this dude's arguement.
1. He doesn't think "rotary" stuff is "the way it works" at least to hit the ball far.
2. He is advising maximizing vertical forces into the ground vs. just turning or just sliding . . . so slide then push up and turn dynamically.
3. He wants you to swing the arms FAST.
So the question is . . . . is this contradictory to Mr. K . . . I say NO . . . I think it's right in line. There certainly are some things to flesh out.
1. 4-1-2-3 . . .what does that mean in relation to "fast arms" . . . considering Homer said the arms are the power lane?
2. How do you swing your arms fast? Do you just plane turn your pivot into them massive rotor style? Is there arm participation?
3. I think releasing 4-1-2-3 at the proper rate with the pivot has huge on plane functions . ..
I don't that you are representing his "core" MFT argument.
His core argument is based on multiple firings - the idea that one should reactivate the hip turn again in the late downswing.
This is what he wrote-: "In a biomechanical graph, this means that Tiger has two velocity peaks for his hips and shoulders. His second hip velocity peak occurs just prior to impact and this "slingshots" his shoulders (2nd firing) into the ball with maximum force."
He is arguing that a second hip velocity peak will "slingshot" the shoulders into the ball with maximum force. Do you buy that argument? Do you believe that slinging your right shoulder into the ball with maximum force (as a second firing) will increase ball speed? If you do, please explain the mechanics.
There is a combination of rotary and vertical movent of the shoulders in the DS, Joe Norwood talked alot about the shoulders acting as pistons driving the arms through impact...ie. vertical not rotary...Norwood may have helped Hogan in the 40s.
If accumulator 4 has started to release...ie left arm is moving down and off the chest... can pivot motion do anything more than divert the path of the arm after release has started? ie. the chest rotation can't push the arm once the arm has left the chest....but the shoulders can move and alter the left arm in a different manner...?maybe redirecting the power package or actually adding force??
Maybe MFT swing starts with rotation and then fires later with vertical...but it is all blended through a general application of force....force is the ultimate result however it is achieved...aligned force.
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