How do we keep the Belt Speed/Hand Speed constant during Release? Swingers use Momentum Transfer, Hitters use Right Arm Thrust. One is more effective than the other.
Momentum Transfer is indeed more effective than Right Triceps Thrust in terms of minimizing Release Deceleration. And all other things being equal, that would result in a lower Clubhead Speed at Impact.
But...'all other things' are not equal. The Right Triceps Muscle Power is capable of producing tremendous Hand Speed, perhaps exceeding that of Momentum Transfer Centrifugal Power. Therefore, even after the Release Slowdown, it is possible for the Hitter's net Handspeed to be equal to (or even greater than) that of the Swinger.
In my 1982 GSEM Certification Class, Homer Kelley illustrated that point using Release illustrations from Search For The Perfect Swing, a book published the year prior to The Golfing Machine.
That's why Right Arm Swingers get more distance than momentum transfer swingers with their lower hand speed.
Yoda....I don't have a copy in front of me, but I believe "Search for the Perfect Swing" came out in the mid to late 60's (1965 or 1967??? someone with a copy handy clarify this....thanks). Or was it the research for the book that was done in the mid to late 60s???
Yoda....I don't have a copy in front of me, but I believe "Search for the Perfect Swing" came out in the mid to late 60's (1965 or 1967??? someone with a copy handy clarify this....thanks). Or was it the research for the book that was done in the mid to late 60s???
Search For The Perfect Swing was published in 1968, the year before the 1969 publication of The Golfing Machine. No second edition was ever published -- Homer Kelley said it was because of fundamental errors that could not be resolved by the two authors (Cochran and Stobbs) or the various researchers involved. Interest in the book was revived in the mid-80s, and there have since been five printings, the first in 1986 and the last in 1999.
Am I the only one out of almost 1000 people that isnt entirely comfortable or doesnt entirely comprehend the previous posts on triggering and the relationships previously noted??? I dont argue for arguments sake, but when I am 'not getting it', I certainly will present my understanding. But I'm the only one????? Ok....I can live with that. I think.
I am still sorting through it Lynn and Tong - but I am having some issues reconciling everything. I hope to put a post up midweek, time allowing. But man am I in it deep!
Am I the only one out of almost 1000 people that isnt entirely comfortable or doesnt entirely comprehend the previous posts on triggering and the relationships previously noted??? I dont argue for arguments sake, but when I am 'not getting it', I certainly will present my understanding. But I'm the only one????? Ok....I can live with that. I think.
I am still sorting through it Lynn and Tong - but I am having some issues reconciling everything. I hope to put a post up midweek, time allowing. But man am I in it deep!
Thanks!
Patrick
Yoda,
Put up Tomasello's May 1992 video and I think you will end Patrick's confusion!!!
Don't worry Phillygolf....there's lots of stuff in here that I have to read 5 times to get into my coconut. Good that you'd admit that cause I think that everyone gets this stuff so easily.
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
That's why Right Arm Swingers get more distance than momentum transfer swingers with their lower hand speed.
Could someone explain the difference between the two please?
Hand Speed: Right Arm Swinging Versus Basic Swinging [arhh!]
Originally Posted by birdie_man
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
That's why Right Arm Swingers get more distance than momentum transfer swingers with their lower hand speed.
Could someone explain the difference between the two please?
First, we have to understand the logic behind DG's statement. Here are some reminders, and I hope I've presented them logically and clearly enough so you can understand it step by step.
(1) Ceteris Paribus, Momentum Transfer is more effective than Right Tricep Thrust for preventing Release Deceleration / slower RPM / slower Hand Speed / slower Belt Speed.
[Note: These terms are pretty much (but not exactly) synoymous and I will use whichever one I feel is best in this post.]
(2) What does 'more effective' mean? It means for a given RPM regardless of its actual magnitude, that number of RPM will decrease less, or not at all.
[Note: during Release, RPM cannot increase by definition]
(3) However, Right Tricep Thrust can produce a higher net Hand Speed than Momentum Transfer.
[Note: this statement is debatable. Lets assume it's true even though I cannot provide conclusive evidence. You really need two identical golfers to prove it, not two different golfers, which is what some research/photos is based on]
So even after its slow down, Hand Speed can still be higher than the golfer who's using Momentum Transfer. This is what's known as net Hand Speed, which is Hand Speed after Release Deceleration (if any).
Just to hammer this home I will give you an example.
Two Cars: Car A and Car B. Car A is travelling at 100 MPH and Car B at 110 MPH. Car B slows down to 105 MPH, but its net speed is still higher than Car A's even after the 5 MPH slow down. Car B is using Right Tricep Muscle Power and Car A is using Momentum Transfer.
This is only an example. Please don't take it as gospel and ask questions like "why can't Car B slow down to 90 MPH?" Well it can, but I will leave it to someone who's better qualified to discuss that.
(4) What is the Right Arm Swing? It is using the Right Arm to Pull the Clubshaft Longitudinally for Centrifugal Acceleration. So you're using the Right Arm to Pull, not Push.
[Note: you only push with the Right Arm if you're a Hitter or a Four-Barrel Swinger. The Four-Barrel Swing is not relevant to our discussion, because we're talking about Right Arm Swing (which can not be Four-Barreled -- again, interesting, but irrelevant)]
(5) This is where logic gets a bit shaky. Assuming that Right Tricep Thrust does produce a higher net Hand Speed than Momentum Transfer (see point (3)), we jump to the conclusion that a Right Arm Pulling Action (Rope Handle Technique) does also produce a higher net Hand Speed than Momentum Transfer.
Hence DG's statement above.
Now, did DG go through the same thoughts as me when he wrote that? I don't know, but that's how I am thinking, and I hope all of us here are 'reading on the same page'.
Right Tricep Thrust is required to execute the "Tomasello version" of the Right Arm Swing - how else can you extend the Right Arm outward while rotating in "one smooth motion" as he demonstrates in the video? This thrust must stop no later than the beginning of the pulley or else this pull becomes a push and the Swinger becomes a Switter, but he doesn't say this. In a true Swing, Right or Left Arm, it has to be CF which straightens the Right Arm.
Right Tricep Thrust is required to execute the "Tomasello version" of the Right Arm Swing - how else can you extend the Right Arm outward while rotating in "one smooth motion" as he demonstrates in the video? This thrust must stop no later than the beginning of the pulley or else this pull becomes a push and the Swinger becomes a Switter, but he doesn't say this. In a true Swing, Right or Left Arm, it has to be CF which straightens the Right Arm.
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