If I understand you correctly, per 10-19-0, the Lag Loading procedure for acceleration is either radial or longitudinal - you can't do both at the same time. So you're either driving the one (10-19-A) or dragging the other (10-19-C).
So either Axe Handle (Right Hand Throw) or Rope Handle (Swinger's Pull), but both cannot be applied at the same time.
Axe (Throw) vs. the Rope (Pull) - Yoda & Jeff Hull
Thank you for your response Andy R...
After watching the videos with Yoda and Jeff Hull, both discuss throwing the club down the target line. Yoda says you must throw the club down the target line, but he doesn't say which hand or arm does the "throw". Watching the video, it seems as if Jeff Hull is "throwing" the club, but with his left hand in a pulling action.
Also, whether I throw or pull, don't I roll either way to create angular acceleration ?
Maybe the problem is with the semantics of language.
Are there any advantages comparing the Axe vs. the Rope ??? It seem that the Axe delivers more power than the Rope, but it is harder to time the roll.
It all can be very confusing, for sure, and I have limited experience, but I can comment on a few things by basically quoting TGM.
Angular momentum can be explained this way. American football kickers in the old days used to kick "straight on" and could only kick about 30 yards or so. But when soccer kickers came on the scene, with their angled line of approach, and 'roundhoused' the ball, distances doubled. So, Angular Momentum is an aspect of every golf swing by virtue of the clubs approach to the ball.
With regard to a power advantage between Axe or Rope, I'm pretty sure Full Power can be achieved with either procedure.
Thats about as much as I would be comfortable commenting on. lol I'll let the experts comment on the other stuff.
Last edited by Andy R : 07-16-2008 at 11:08 AM.
Reason: Clarity
. American football kickers in the old days used to kick "straight on" and could only kick about 30 yards or so.
Tom Dempsy of the New Orleans Staints kicked a 63 yd field Goal- using the 'straight on' old way against the Detroit Lions in 1970. It is still the record. Lou 'The Toe' Groza of the Cleveland Browns kicked many 50+ FGs but was deadly from the short distances- more so then the most pro kickers today. 1600+ career points- the mosty points scored by a 'Brown.' NY Giant Pat Smmerall was a killer from 40 yds out. One of the last 'straight on kickers -Mark Moseley's of the Redskins- played after a soccer style kicker Charlie Gogolak of Hungary. His 45+ field goals made the 'skins' a pain in the butt to most NFL teams in his conference. Even I kicked FGs over 40 yds in HS 'straight on.'
...Even I kicked FGs over 40 yds in HS 'straight on.'
If you only knew then what you know now!
One thought provoking fact, Groza made only 58% of his field-goal attempts; today's best kickers make nearly 80% of their attempts. Thanks to Mr. Kelly, I know that an angular approach is a more efficient application of power, but it's the added accuracy thats really interesting. Do you think the accuracy is due to the relative location of the soccer style knee, enabling steady acceleration through impact with a low point being after the ball?
By the way, sorry if I'm getting a bit off topic, DavisMark - my apologies.
Yoda & Jeff Hull : Pull vs. Throw (Please no more football)
I refer to the 3rd video with Yoda & Jeff Hull, where it appears to me that the throw can happen by pulling the hands to an aiming point on the target line. Tom Tomasello in his video talks about throwing the club at the aiming point with the right hand.
Both of these gentlemen throw, roll, and finish.
So, can a left hand pull (Jeff Hull's move) be considered a throw ?
I refer to the 3rd video with Yoda & Jeff Hull, where it appears to me that the throw can happen by pulling the hands to an aiming point on the target line. Tom Tomasello in his video talks about throwing the club at the aiming point with the right hand.
Both of these gentlemen throw, roll, and finish.
So, can a left hand pull (Jeff Hull's move) be considered a throw ?
The Release Triggers (used singly or in combination as Component #20 of the Stroke Pattern) initiate the Release and are termed 'Throws'. As such, they 'Throw' the Club toward Full Extension (2-P), i.e., Perpendicular Motion (as opposed to Horizontal or Rotational) with the Left Wrist in its Flat, Uncocked and Vertical condition and with the Clubshaft in line with the Left Arm.
The term 'Throw' does not relate to the term Throwaway. The latter occurs when the Left Wrist Bends (Horizontal Motion) and the Clubshaft loses its in line relationship with the Left Arm. Its unfortunate consequences are disrupted Rhythm (RPM) and massive Power Loss.
To your question specifically: The Swinger Loads and Unloads the Left Wrist. Consequently, the Left Wrist Throw (10-20-E) is the specified Trigger Variation in the Drag Loading Basic Stroke Pattern (12-2-0). In Pivot Strokes, it may be used in combination with the Shoulder Turn Throw (10-20-C) and, in Snap Releases, the Delivery Path Throw (10-20-D).
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I very much admire your work with TGM, and have watched every video that you have graciously shared on your website.
I've have played golf for almost 40 years, with a handicap that has ranged from 6 to 10. I have a deep desire to improve, as I have reached a plateu. I am currently studying with a GSEB certified TGM instructor. He has instructed me that there is no conscious throwing of the hands or arms, and that I should use a Shoulder Turn throw and snap releases and allow the arms & hands to be passive (yet guided). My goal is to move my left hand 13 inches in front of where they start at intial address. I must confess, that throwing my left hand to an aiming point ahead of the ball is much easier than letting the arms and hands remain passive (i.e. moved by the body rotation.) I have been guilty of allowing my left hand to move in a horizontal plane, and I am trying very hard to overcome this serious flaw.
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